Fanaticism

Brumby 's legacy may well be to turn our legal system into a nightmare

2010-03-29T12:40:00.007+11:00

Hull's ham fisted attempt to deal with things he doesn't like about religious schools doesn't gel with the liberties he offers most other organisations.
Why Brumby would allow Hulls the liberty of forcing schools to defend their employment policy is a mystery. Isn't the whole theme of the new exemptions a recognition that legitimate organisations/ employers have the right to choose their own staff .Schools must be the same!

Non fanatics would find another way, but the ham fisted Hulls blasts away . why? Hulls has had to be reigned in before .Why not again:? after all , by trying to overturn the burden of proof he needs to be told he's completely ignoring our legal heritage- he's mad !
Hulls has a few friends though that think " To be a good scientist you have to be a complete materialist ".
But the evidence on thats score is against him ( "Bios, Logos Theos" for eg) .
These monists think subject categories should be checked and double checked for absolute truth , heresy and doctrinal purity when no complete categorization is acceptable to any reasonable scientist .
For example , As I have said elsewhere I think kids at secondary school are smart. ,They need exposure to all sorts of ideas and subject declassification and good schools ( a more acceptable focus?) accept that . I don't like the noise and confusion and deafness created by dull witted censorship and fixed subject classifications . I don't want my daughter's biology teacher ( at any school) or even expect her to constantly go beyond the subject of DNA and adaption by natural selection, to saying its the theory of everything - but it may happen .What polys can do to stop abuse I don't know . Its not there job anyway - its the schools job . I don't want my daughter (IDWMD) to fail to make the distinction between science and the philosophy of science. IDWMD to only hear that meterology is the only way we learn about climate, history, cosmological history , physics and predictive earth science . IDWMD to constantly hear from her english teacher that "Lady's Chatterley's Lover is the best guide to sexual relationships ever .Dicsuss it yes- thats the point Choice . Deal with the wolf Maybe my daughter can cope with knowing thats what he really thinks anyway? Its the noise and deafness controls that need some attention --not the subjects ( Its not what goes into a man that ruins him mate - the prophet said)
The very love of categorization, as AN Whitehead pointed out in the 1920's is a disease .

Must be something really serious that worries them both ?

Maybe they worry too much.
Neither Brumby nor Hulls seems to realise that the popular teaching of the philosophy of evolutionary determinism (ED)in the media is rightly the subject of a controversy (a category error ) in the public mind and in religious schools in particular . In a free country a category error ( inherently relevant or not relevant) is not a crime, but a point from which to openly and rationally centre debate . Hulls clearly wants to close the debate down .What a dummy .
THE SOLUTION :
Teach ED in a philosophy class , and adaption by natural selection in biology class, at both secular and religious schools ......and BOTH will be happy - no need to panic; no need to get fanatical and spend weeks in court playing letigious logomachy. Not that hard to be reasonable and respectful with what parents (rather than what polys want)............. is it.
Is Brumby up to saying no to the reactionaries in his midst?
ACT
Pull off the inherent requirements tests and burden of proof rubbish ( as if a job is the mere sum of the words ) ! Do polys really know what goes wrong where ? Does Labor not realize more Christians (and agnostics too) will leave the State system if the secularists insist in monoculture doctrine review in schools\? The secular/ religious divide in Vic schools is a asset and under good (by teachers and parents)review already ( not polys and legal boffins ---heaven forbid ) ? Sets the scene for category error discussions in a place where it can rightly be discussed ( in front of both parents and teachers)

Getting fanatical is an admission you have lost sight of the problem.
Better not to vote at all than act when you are such a mood !
What do polys know about what works- they maybe out rubbing sticks together next year?
The dumbness of it is obvious to those outside the cage - lets hope not all Laborites are in their together responding in kneejerk fashion to what is not their choice , but a parents choice .

As if Brumby's lot haven't got enough big issues without trying to turn our legal system upside down - a bit of freedom would go down well in the nanny state.
To risk the ruin of the great jewel in Victorias crown of the appeals system as well . The chairman of VCAT has stated the problem - but B government is still creating it. How about a job test for them? !
Who do they think they are anyway ?

Evidence of Atheists" having lost sight of their aim"

2010-03-15T06:49:00.002+11:00

Richard Dawkins and his mates in the AFA need to ask the question whether they are shooting straight.It's all very well being against something - but what are you fighting for. And where indeed is this enemy ?Amongst the rebels or amongst the moderates ?
In shooting directly at religious people the old greeks are ignoring the psychological reality that they are shooting at themselves. Shooting yourselves in the foot? Takes one to know one ?Maybe there are people in the religious congregations who might agree with them on "the dangers of religion" - and don't appreciate being blasted on mass.

Even if you have a good aim and you HIT the temple directly all you get is SPLINTERS.
To be effective in dealing with the enormous power of religious paradigms, you have to recognise that the rebels and the moderates share the same temple .
Blowing up the temple achieves nothing . The devil is in the detail- and if you want to get the devil , you have deal with him in the detail.
Followers of Christ in particular know all about the dangers of organised religion ( going back into prehistory even ) . They are rebels by nature . Rebellion and isolation is at the heart of the growth of the Christian faith - not the external stuff ; the reactionary stuff.
Maybe spying is a better way to move forward in their ancient battle to rid the world of symbols .Reading Jeremiah might also give them some clues as to who is on what side, when - a key issue in an effecetive strategy and making your arrows work. Better and deeper than that superficial old macheavelli .

Cummon Richard - Stop shooting yourself in the foot

2010-03-15T06:27:00.000+11:00

Richard Dawkins is less convincing than he thinks because he's not aware of what he's doing . Sure you can make money like Dan Brown questioning everything and "having a go" . We rebels ALL agree that words are powerful , but never let us stop using them, carefully .
Most of us observing rebels to the dangers of instutional religion are asking " are you in denial about being religious yourself" .( science of the mind rather suggests we all are" religous") ABCnews of the grand conference of Atheists in Melbourne this week focused on what looked like denial ( I'm not vehement am i?" )
Sound sustainability scientists accept the role of aggression, and are not in denial about it .
And what seems worse on the convincing stakes is having Peter Singer as second fiddle .; Surely the man has spent more time chasing reactionary trams than any old greeks we know .
Finally they talk a lot of hot air about evidence.
- few scientists amongst them . They say 'what scientist say" which could mean they just say what they wanna say . They use the word evolution to preach the doctrine of evolutionary and secular determinism . ( a fine but important distinction )
- Celebrating the rise ? All growth is not good. Especially if it arises out of redoubling of effort and there is plenty of evidence for fanaticism and denial amongst them .
-Evidence from History ; need to be more careful who sits in the back row of congregations of people who think they should be allowed to do their own thing . The history of such conferences is that they achieve little ( Ask Emperor Julian - he had lots of money to throw at the problem ) and harbour more tyrants than our own traditions of faith .
- The evidence is that some of these 2nd century Greeks ( via Plato's cave )would have gone further with identifying the merry go round of mere rhetoric than the 21st century ones have in the 2000 years of wild largely unproductive reactionary rhetoric since.

Make sure noone with a passion is on board

2008-08-15T09:53:00.003+10:00

Couldn't help thinking our favoured rebel greer protesteth too much and too wildly on QUANDA on 14th august 2008. If I was greer, I would be wondering who was climbing aboard the train with me. Maybe i too 'like those who hunt fanatics and fundamantalistists, am a fanatic and a fundamantalist - and maybe its Ok ?

In lumping 68 books together as crap she rather demeans all books and blunders her way past the wonder paradox of the evening - that narrative. rather than the dumb pedantry of the ever greek greer is what helps people make sense of the stuff beyond the stats, the speculation and the science . Ask a scientist---- ask me !

God VS Science -Only really for the Greeks amongst us

2007-10-01T16:01:00.000+10:00

I reckon if you stand back far enough from 2 people fighting you can see more clearly than most( those enjoying the spectacle of their predjudices played out) ,you have much more hope of seeing what is really going on.
Dawkins and the defenders of Faith have good reason to argue ( Where is God when you need him ? ) Lucky for Dawkins, God does not want to show up.
Even more fortuitously for Dawkins , those believers who tend to rush forward ( for eg ; to defend the paradoxical detail of genesis - "the days" )are often not aware of the limits of science, or even of literature.
Withsomeone to take issue with "science proves things" , Dawkins has a debate on his hands -
But surely its only got some momentume, because both sides are behaving like fanatics. God choosing( it could be said ) to not speak for himself in court doesn' seem tp help the believers case . Jesus could, inspite of expectations, remains silent before men. The big question, if He is really God , might be why?
Clearly for scientist believers , The real aim/question ( Can science and faith coexist ?) is not in focus on this day. It's a myopics field day and Dawkins has set the scene to limit it to that .
Any progress towards understanding the big wonder and word questions is likely to be obscured. The redoubling of effort is effective in selling books and stirring up emotion. For those many believers whose picture of the universe is truly multidimensional, messing with the predicable myopia of the monists only encourages them to be more fanatical .

Dawkins of course, like Dan Brown, relies on the fact that can you guarantee to win a mere argument ---if you set yourself up to win - if you simply get very greek and set yourself up a straw man or in Dawkins case, a straw God .
Dan Brown could be miffed . Dawkins can get away without any touchy feely earthly evidence for the jury . Not only that, with God absent ( at least, not audibly ) you need someone who does not realise the aim and rules of the game( can anyone really say what the invisible has been up to?) ; someone who doesn't quite get the point - the real limits of science and the real limits of rhetoric .

Dawkins and the defenders of the detail of Genesis may be at each other , but without the accused being present to defend the accusation ( "He had no role to play in Creation" ) ,and a proper focus on science , the setup outcome is predictable, if not entirely reasonable .
The idea that you have to be an atheist to be a scientist is not born out by the facts ) The many keen christains who have degrees in physics and chemistry are dualists and do not see the absolute need , or reason to expect proofs on the propositions put by Dawkins. As true Believers , they are not overly perturbed about the hypo rationality of their addiction to faith . They see the logic that God's stated aim is to be more of a personal reality than a purely objective one. Like all Christians, they more would dearly like people to chase the hidden and see how faith can add value to science --how it can spawn and stir up a sense of wonder -the option of proof is denied them and us )

Shakespeares England could have a good laugh at the laborious lumbering logomachy of the reactionary monists .Why can't we ? "
Its all greek to me" mate, said Tvye as he got on with really enjoying and working in his part of a very big big world.

2007-06-27T07:46:00.000+10:00

Nothing more symbolizes the fanaticism of the people than their blind acceptance of risk avoidance tokens .
Nothing more symbolizes the god like, but godless arrogance of our leaders than there claims to be supermen
-Howard sends in the troops to save babies
-Rudds runs off at the mouth over simple means to save water
-Turnbull still thinks he can engineer his way out of a conservation issue
-Bracks makes water and sends us full page ads to tell us how clever he is
All this hot air over hot air seems to have led to too much haste and too much talk of brakes - Brakes in energy-1 and water-2 conservation and the new kid on the block -emission targeting-3.

Now whether its 1 ,2 or 3 the science is one thing and the science and praxis is another . But apparantly in an election year the glove of control has only one lever - its called a brake. I am not clear who or whom is now commited to pressing it . I hope I am not the only one who thinks this is the biggest piece of impossible impotent projection ever in politics in Australia. Whose actually going to do it and how?
Pity these blokes aren't listening to the former PS commissioner Podger who is today reminding the leaders of our country that they are lost at sea through their own stupidity. If the issue was complex maybe they should consult with people whose training and experience doesn't allow them to be swayed by every passing wind of doctrine.

2004-05-24T20:13:00.000+10:00

Despite a severe rap over the rape and burning of Ne victoria ( NVIc politicians are still determined to follow the noisy fanatics into some new idea about forest and land management that doesn't work,, even in the short term .
Ignore the likes of Attwell at your peril all you half baked ecosystem experts with the experience and understanding of bookworms and armchair idealists.

Professor David Attwell of Melbourne University.

took the time to tell NE landowners this week they were on the right track .

Posted by: journeymanj / 3:02 AM
Thursday, May 06, 2004

2004-05-03T13:08:00.000+10:00

Just how out of touch can Canberra get?
In ecological terms, ( the olde frog and water story ) if you heat the water up with ONLY one important imperative like the competition imperative, you don't even know your killing people when everyone adjusts to the nice warmth of something held so simply in isolation? Ecological and economic systems die if ALL the forces aren't held in tension... constantly

Great to see some talk on the ABC about these issues. John Cleary Sunday nights
The Old cultural cringe , though , is still very evident . "What would hick country people know "( eg one caller on Katter - "he hasn't even got a passport") Well they actually observe ecosystems very closely mate !That's a very good start!

Take this simple piece of faith " Life in rural A ustralia s doesn't have a future" according to Michael Duffy .And how does he KNOW this?- "well it just is "( knowledge is belief for those who carelessly chant with the Canberra sect)
I mean they don't have to look any further, dig any deeper -

Isn't it great how labour and liberals are in such a smoochy mood over economic policy - the invisible clothes haven't looked any better for years!. http:/users.gsat.net.au/ tuf

We who study both ecosystems and economies KNOW they haven't got the big picture .......but will they listen ? oh no ; We believe what some ( of our very own cloned) academics and the multinationals tell us . All major parties in the Canberra sect trust the bookkeepers and their high priests.

"The Economy is going well according to the ledger . The new clothes of competition policy are delivering like nothing ever did before,,,, or ever will ( ottherwise we may have to wake up during our sittings!) ! AFTER ALL -THERE ARE ONLY TWO COLUMNS THAT MATTER ------AREN'T THERE ? "

It gets worse as the chants out of Canberra are louder, more insistent, more comfortable -more fanatical http:/ourland3.tripod.com

Surely, when the major parties agree to something as complex to model as the economy , we know we're in trouble -only one view . monoculture
It makes them happy - they think they are the only ones who recognised Marxisms and the far left's heresies - The job of parliament is a bit bigger and you need to dig deeper!
Trouble is there is no passion ; even when they are all in church during the week .
http://fairgomate.blogspot.com

My definition - Thanks George!

2004-03-25T07:42:00.000+11:00

Fanaticism consists of "redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim ( George Santayana).Help us prevent the wastage of excessive force by those who have lost their sense of the enemy. We may not be able to do much about the excessive force they apply but maybe we can do something by pointing more clearly at the target.